Problem: Is it the new Alien Bees or Me?

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 23 Location: North Texas

I am new to strobe lighting! I had two continuous lights w/ 500w bulbs & I just placed one on either side. They were fine, but I decided to upgrade & purchased one 800 AB, w/ 32x40" softbox. They came in today & b/c I didn't know what I was doing I didn't get a hotshoe adapter (I only have the XT) so I decided to just use my flash, bounce it off of the ceiling, to trigger the strobe. My room is only 12'x12', but even @ f/4 & 1/8 shutter, light on full, I'm not getting near enough light. My room also has 5 windows:)

B/c I'm new I took everyones advice & wanted to just start out w/ one light. A reflector is on the way, but I don't think its going to be enough to help. I called AB's & they said I might upgrade to the 1600!?

Can anyone help me?

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:26 am

Post some photos from the shots. Where did you have the softbox setup in relationship to your subject? How far away? You had it set at full power with window light and a bounced camera flash? Are you certain that your strobe actually fired or did the picture simply represent your modeling lights output? I can't imagine that you didn't have adequate light under the particular circumstances.

I'm not a lighting pro by any means, but I think there is something wrong with your Bee. I'd return it for a new one if it is definitely firing as it should be.

Again, post a couple sample shots from this sitting.

Shuttermom17

Posted: Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:29 am

What flash unit are you using to trigger your Bee?

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 245 Location: Maryland

Quote:

just use my flash, bounce it off of the ceiling, to trigger the strobe. My room is only 12'x12', but even @ f/4 & 1/8 shutter, light on full, I'm not getting near enough light. My room also has 5 windows:)

Yep, somethings amiss!

I suspect it may have to do with the triggering method your using. If the flash your bouncing off ceiling is a modern one that has some sort of preflash metering ssytem in it (canon uses ettl, don't know the other brands names)
Your little flash may be emitting 2 flashes, (1 for estimating exposure, 2nd for actual exposure) and the alien bee is picking up the first flash, firing, and not picking up the actual 2nd flash- the one that actually makes the exposure. So everything is dark, because everything is not in sync.

The fix:
use radio slaves to trigger wirelessly (can be had on Ebay for very low cost)
-or get the hotshoe adaptor (make sure the AB trigger voltage is low enough for your camera model)
-or if wired, use a wien safe sync to protect against the trigger voltage if needed (it goes in your hotshoe)

There is no way whatsoever you need the 1600 AB model for that small a space. I guarantee the 800 is far more than enough.

If the pre-flash thing isn't it, check the flash settings again, make sure the flash tube in fully inserted in the AB unit, and give 'ole AB a call if needed.

Hope this helps

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 23 Location: North Texas

Thanks so much for your input. For a day or so I thought I was a complete idiot. My flash is a Canon 430. It's late, so I'll post some pictures tomorrow, but they are so dark that it's as if there is no light at all. In some, you can't even see a subject. I've ordered a hotshoe adapter; hopefully it will be here next week. Thanks again!!!!!!!

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 3:07 am

I would strongly suggest you look at the ghetto remote triggers that Jacque is referring to. I got to see those in use and they are exactly what I'm going to order. :)

No need to post a pic. Your main light didn't fire. All you were getting was the 100 watt modeling lamp as the light on your subject. :) Aren't you glad to have phototakers? I'm a little disappointed that Alien Bees rep would suggest that you needed the 1600. If you gave them all the same information as you did on here, it's pretty obvious that something is wrong with the firing system, not hte fact that the 800 isn't strong enough. I think just for the heck of it, I'd call Alien Bees again and tell them your story. See what kind of response you get a second time around. My understading is that their customer service people are usually pretty good to help troubleshoot. As I say, I'm a little disappointed that their response was for you to upgrade.

Good luck and have fun. :)

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 23 Location: North Texas

Quote:

Aren't you glad to have phototakers?

I'm SOOOOOO glad to have phototakers. I don't post much, but I sure get a lot of useful info from here. So, thanks to everyone out there!

About remote triggers & receivers....do I need one of each? And, is it safe to buy a cheapo off eBay, can I trust it, or do I need a name brand? Not, that I'm made of money, but I like to buy right the 1st time.

Posted: Fri Aug 17, 2007 8:36 pm

As I understand it, they will fire 99/100 times. In a studio setting, I will take those percentages. I used them in a seminar recently and they fired more than 500 times during the course of the day. One misfire was noted. Not bad odds. And the cost certainly makes it worthwhile in my opinion. :) Anyway, yes you do need at least one receiver and one transmitter, however I think the ebay triggers come with both in a package, if I"m not mistaken. Hopefully Jacque will jump back on this thread as he's very knowledgable and will be able to give you the definitive answer.

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 245 Location: Maryland

jenniferhenderson wrote:

About remote triggers & receivers....do I need one of each? And, is it safe to buy a cheapo off eBay, can I trust it, or do I need a name brand? Not, that I'm made of money, but I like to buy right the 1st time.

I own 3 from this seller right here:
4ch radio slave off Ebay $27 *comes with everything you need

No problems in 2.5 yrs. A search on Ebay for radio slave will show other sellers.

Others from reputable sources:

16 ch radio slave at B&H $90 *comes with everything you need
Radio slave at Alien Bees $80 *you will need to buy 1 receiver and 1 transmitter from AB.

Note some slaves state the receiver uses a pass thru to power the unit from the monolights ac cord. This is great, one less gadget with batteries to replace. Great for studio only, no intention to travel or use small flash units with the slave.

But the Ebay unit linked above (there are other models too) will allow you to take them out in the field, and also use them with small portable flashes. The receiver just uses a couple batteries.

Quote:

Hopefully Jacque will jump back on this thread as he's very knowledgable

Must be another Jacque out there somewhere then... :)

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 2:29 am

Jacque.... wondered if I could pick your brain for a minute? Do you know much about the AlienBees counterpart... White Lightning? They are made by Paul Buff as well and I wondered if the additional money is worth it? The 3 primary "spec" differences are:

1.AB800=flash duration at full (t.5 method) of 1/320th of a second vs the WhiteLightning x800 is 1/3600th sec.

2. AB800 has a max 150watt modeling light vs. WhiteLightning has 250 watt

3. AB800 has 320 true watt seconds producing 800 effective watt seconds compared to the White Lightning is rated at 330 true watt seconds but also 800 effective watt seconds.

4. Alien Bees has a 2 year warranty; WL has a 5 year warranty

5. Alien Bees are roughly 279.00/flash head; White Lightning 399.00/per flash head.

My gut tells me that the 250 watt modeling lamp is a nice feature as is the 5 year warranty. If I'm reading this correctly I'm basically paying 120.00 for an additional 3 years of warranty on these lights. My instincts tell me this is a smart thing.

If you (or the other Jacque other there somewhere) have any thoughts or comments I'd be very appreciative of your feedback.

Many, many thanks.

Shuttermom17

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 245 Location: Maryland

shuttermom17 wrote:

Jacque.... wondered if I could pick your brain for a minute? Do you know much about the AlienBees counterpart... White Lightning? They are made by Paul Buff as well and I wondered if the additional money is worth it?

1 - I wouldn't worry about the flash duration unless needing to freeze very quick motion (say hummingbirds in hover) or possible flash sync with certain cameras or lenses. (leaf shutters can sync at all shutter speeds)

2 - 250 would be preferred if your going to be using a med to large softbox, as these will suck up the modeling light output, making it more difficult to judge sb placement and shadow effects.

3 - basically ignore effective watt seconds, as its merly a marketing ploy. The difference between 320 and 330 true w/s is negligible

4 - no brainer

So the cost breakdown for each is basically:
AB at .87 per wattsecond or the
WL at $1.21 per wattsecond.

Lots of folks love their Alien Bee units. But White Lightning has been an industry workhorse for many many years. Not uncommon to see WL units in service even after 25+ yrs. The added modeling lamp power and the extended warranty would push me to go with the WL's if it were me.

Or if you've got the $$ to invest, Hensel makes very high quality lights. Many features (that I'm too tired to list right now) that beat both units above.

Posted: Sat Aug 18, 2007 8:06 am

Jacque.... Thank you so much. I see so much 'talk' about Alien Bees and I just stumbled across White Lightning in a forum one day. Went to the website and was so surprised to see that even the layout of the website is nearly identical to Alien Bees. It's interesting that you describe the WL as an industry workhorse, yet I never hear any talk about White Lightning (on any of the forums). The 5 year warranty certainly seemed a wise choice to me and only having used professional studio lights twice (both in workshops) I figured the 250 watt modeling lamp would probably be beneficial.

Again I really appreciate your taking the time to comment. I've learned so much from your teaching here on Phototakers and always sincerely appreciate that you are so generous in sharing your knowledge.

Jennifer.... hope you don't mind the interruption on your thread. ;)

Barb

Joined: 13 Jan 2007 Posts: 245 Location: Maryland

shuttermom17 wrote:

Jacque.... Thank you so much. I see so much 'talk' about Alien Bees and I just stumbled across White Lightning in a forum one day. Went to the website and was so surprised to see that even the layout of the website is nearly identical to Alien Bees. It's interesting that you describe the WL as an industry workhorse, yet I never hear any talk about White Lightning (on any of the forums).

Heh, are there many old time pros in those forums? Been in the biz 15-30+ years? Or are the forums filled mostly with newcomers to the biz or are hobbyists, whose budgets are in the AB price range? (i'm not an old time pro, but I was trained by one lol)

Yeah, definitely get something with a high wattage modeling lamp. Also, the WL are constructed for professional usage. Metal housing, AB has plastic. Circuit boards are desigend for easier repair. And some other points that I just now forgot as I am typing this... sigh.

Quote:

Again I really appreciate your taking the time to comment. I've learned so much from your teaching here on Phototakers and always sincerely appreciate that you are so generous in sharing your knowledge.

Truly a rewarding comment Barb. Thank you very much.
I do hope my babbling helps someone out there, lol.

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 23 Location: North Texas

Quote:

Jennifer.... hope you don't mind the interruption on your thread. ;)

No problem! I appreciate the info.

OMG, my hotshoe adapter came in 5 minutes ago, & it works PERFECTLY.; I even had to turn my light down from full power. But I can see how the wires are going to get in my way....I'm going to check out eBay. Thanks sooooo sooo much for your help!

Jennifer

Joined: 10 Nov 2005 Posts: 23 Location: North Texas

Okay, this may be a dumb question, but if I buy one of the wireless transmitters off of eBay that includes the trigger & 1 receiver, will I be able to fire 2 lights? Will my other AB automatically fire when it sees the light from the first strobe? Or do I need to buy 2 receivers?

See, last week when I was having my lighting problems, I was getting nervous so bought the 1600. Its WAY too powerful for my space (I have it on 1/8 power, but I don't want to send it back....I like it:)

Jennifer