The Fine Line of Trespassing

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 9:48 am

What's the general thought on this?

I'm sure we all see really wonderful photo opportunities as we're out driving around, especially in rural areas.

What do you do when getting the perfect shot means entering someone else's property, but you don't know whom to ask?

There is a field with a neat row of bee hives. These are such an unusual site (at least, to me) that I'd love to go out into this field to capture the scene. There is no indication of ownership to be seen.

I'm sure I'd probably be able to get in and out without anyone noticing. But I'm afraid of the off-chance the owner or a police cruiser would stop by and question my motives. Although I'm not hurting anything, they'd have every right to fine me, I suppose.

So what do you do? How far will you go to get "that shot?"

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 10:49 am

I've been wondering about this also. It's almost apple blossom time here, and I KNOW I want to venture into some orchards....but I'd prefer to get permission. Sometimes it's not easy to tell who the owner is though.

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 350 Location: Ontario, Canada

Living in a rural area, I get frustrated with the total disrepect for others' property show by hunters, boaters and ATV users. I've seen fences cut, signs shot down, been threatened and been shot at by trespassing hunters. I've seen fires set and equipment and property destroyed by those on ATVs and hiking. Not to mention the frustration of having my photo-quarry chased off by a passing ATV or dirtbike.

BUT, I sure like it when someone asks if they can cross my property for whatever reason instead of taking trespass rights fore granted.

Any picture you take from private property without permisiion to be there cannot be published for profit AFAIK.

In your case the bee hives most likely do not belong to the property owner or farmer. In fact in this day and age, the property owner may have the land leased to someone else to farm and a licenced bee-keeper has placed the hives there in contract with the farmer. Check with the local township office to see who owns the property and go from there.

All my neighbours (I've lived here 32 years) have their property posted because of the slob trespassers. I'd not ever think to go on their property without obtaining permission to go there to photograph whatever even though I know that they would not prosecute me for trespass and welcome me as a neighbour. To me, it is a matter of respect for other people.

OTOH, the railroad that passes by my property is posted "No Trespassing" but I know that I can freely traverse this without prosecution.

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 350 Location: Ontario, Canada

Forgot to mention the fact that ticks are abundant this Spring and 5 dogs have been treated for lyme disease by my vet already this year. Lyme disease can be crippling and even deadly if not detected.

So if you do venture into the knee high or higher grass and weeds, be sure to check yourself thoughly for these little disease carrying pests. Ticks like to move to the warm areas of the body -back of knees, crotch, stomach, breasts, armpits, head and the ears.

Google "lyme disease" and "deer tick" for more info.

I've had people laugh at this threat but I've seen a 12 year old girl so crippled up and in such pain and a young lad in Port Colborne, ON died because he was not treated. I'm not paranoid, just cautious.

Posted: Thu May 24, 2007 3:42 pm

Schweethart wrote:

What's the general thought on this?

I'm sure we all see really wonderful photo opportunities as we're out driving around, especially in rural areas.

What do you do when getting the perfect shot means entering someone else's property, but you don't know whom to ask?

There is a field with a neat row of bee hives. These are such an unusual site (at least, to me) that I'd love to go out into this field to capture the scene. There is no indication of ownership to be seen.

I'm sure I'd probably be able to get in and out without anyone noticing. But I'm afraid of the off-chance the owner or a police cruiser would stop by and question my motives. Although I'm not hurting anything, they'd have every right to fine me, I suppose.

So what do you do? How far will you go to get "that shot?"

I'd be tempted to find out if there was a public right-of-way nearby (you never know you might get lucky). ;-)

If you could find out the owner then I'm they would be happy to let you take a few shots and you could take your time with the composition.

Certainly in the UK you would be certainly within your rights to use a telephoto lens from the roadside (or so I understand), I'm not sure how this varies across the the pond.

Me personally, I might enter a farmers field to get the shot, but fortunately in UK there are large number of public rights of way in the countryside, so you're never really straying to far from a path. ;-) I'm a bit of a scaredy cat when it comes to that.

Mark

Joined: 27 Oct 2004 Posts: 451 Location: Gloucester, UK

pturton wrote:

Forgot to mention the fact that ticks are abundant this Spring and 5 dogs have been treated for lyme disease by my vet already this year. Lyme disease can be crippling and even deadly if not detected.

So if you do venture into the knee high or higher grass and weeds, be sure to check yourself thoughly for these little disease carrying pests. Ticks like to move to the warm areas of the body -back of knees, crotch, stomach, breasts, armpits, head and the ears.

I've had people laugh at this threat but I've seen a 12 year old girl so crippled up and in such pain and a young lad in Port Colborne, ON died because he was not treated. I'm not paranoid, just cautious.

You're right - Lyme's disease is definitely no laughing matter. My next door neighbour's son now lives in Kingston, Ontario and has been very seriously ill with Lyme's disease. Thankfully it was diagnosed fairly promptly and he is expected to make a full recovery. He has been in severe pain at times.

Joined: 18 Nov 2006 Posts: 288

pturton wrote:

Any picture you take from private property without permisiion to be there cannot be published for profit AFAIK.

Not true.

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:23 am

[quote="Keitht"]

pturton wrote:

Forgot to mention the fact that ticks are abundant this Spring and 5 dogs have been treated for lyme disease by my vet already this year. Lyme disease can be crippling and even deadly if not detected.
quote]

You're right - Lyme's disease is definitely no laughing matter. My next door neighbour's son now lives in Kingston, Ontario and has been very seriously ill with Lyme's disease. Thankfully it was diagnosed fairly promptly and he is expected to make a full recovery. He has been in severe pain at times.

I'm actually originally from Kingston, Ontario! The world gets smaller every day, doesn't it?

It's a good point about Lyme Disease. It's not a hazard of the trade I would have thought about.

And as far as being able to market a photo taken during an "illegal" shoot, that's a good point too! If anything, beehives would make a useful stock shot, especially now that bees are having a bad season. I'll have to do some digging to get permissions.

Thanks everyone!

Joined: 21 Oct 2006 Posts: 350 Location: Ontario, Canada

Hoosiershooter wrote:

pturton wrote:

Any picture you take from private property without permisiion to be there cannot be published for profit AFAIK.

Not true.

Not to argue with you on this point but to clarify -

If you are trespassing and take a picture of something on the property you are trespassing on, wouldn't such an image be "stolen"? How about I enter your property without your permission and get a pictures of the interior of your home or your friend skinny dipping in your pool and publish these images and get big bucks but don't give you any; would that be legal?

...but you can be sure I would not enter your domain to photograph without your permission.

I'd guess it's up to who can run faster;-)

Paul

Posted: Fri May 25, 2007 8:15 pm

Sounds like to me it's a case of common sense to me: if you think you have to ask before tresspassing on private property, then you should. If you shooting from a public spot (road, sidewalk, park, etc) and it's in public view, then it's ok.

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:42 pm

Schweethart wrote:

What's the general thought on this?

I'm sure we all see really wonderful photo opportunities as we're out driving around, especially in rural areas.

What do you do when getting the perfect shot means entering someone else's property, but you don't know whom to ask?

I do not respect private property per se. What I do respect is a person's right to privacy, and I respect the land in that I don't want to disturb it. This means I won't enter a property if someone is nearby (so as not to intrude) or get near buildings and vehicles, and I won't leave any signs of my presence. But I have nothing but contempt for the idea of land ownership (as opposed to land management in the sense that a farm has to be managed by a farmer, and home ownership in the sense that a person needs a place to live in privacy). A no trespassing sign in an obviously unused area is an invitation as far as I'm concerned. Fortunately we can't shoot trespassers in Canada, and that's definitely a factor I would consider if I lived in a less civilized part of the world.

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:48 pm

pturton wrote:

Living in a rural area, I get frustrated with the total disrepect for others' property show by hunters, boaters and ATV users. I've seen fences cut, signs shot down, been threatened and been shot at by trespassing hunters. I've seen fires set and equipment and property destroyed by those on ATVs and hiking. Not to mention the frustration of having my photo-quarry chased off by a passing ATV or dirtbike.

See, that is a case of trespassing that I find disgusting, but this is not so much because of the intrusion onto someone's property, but rather the intrusion onto the land that we all should be able to respectfully enjoy.

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 6:53 pm

Quote:

How about I enter your property without your permission and get a pictures of the interior of your home or your friend skinny dipping in your pool and publish these images and get big bucks but don't give you any; would that be legal?

I think it's important to distinguish between an intrusion on someone's privacy (this means entering or wandering around their buildings, their equipment / vehicles, or their persons, etc) and trespassing on natural or near-natural rural land. See my previous post.

Posted: Sun May 27, 2007 10:03 pm

Quote:

I do not respect private property per se. (snip) Fortunately we can't shoot trespassers in Canada, and that's definitely a factor I would consider if I lived in a less civilized part of the world.

Huh?

Joined: 04 Dec 2006 Posts: 79

walter23 wrote:

Schweethart wrote:

What's the general thought on this?

I'm sure we all see really wonderful photo opportunities as we're out driving around, especially in rural areas.

What do you do when getting the perfect shot means entering someone else's property, but you don't know whom to ask?

I do not respect private property per se. What I do respect is a person's right to privacy, and I respect the land in that I don't want to disturb it. This means I won't enter a property if someone is nearby (so as not to intrude) or get near buildings and vehicles, and I won't leave any signs of my presence. But I have nothing but contempt for the idea of land ownership (as opposed to land management in the sense that a farm has to be managed by a farmer, and home ownership in the sense that a person needs a place to live in privacy). A no trespassing sign in an obviously unused area is an invitation as far as I'm concerned. Fortunately we can't shoot trespassers in Canada, and that's definitely a factor I would consider if I lived in a less civilized part of the world.

You are, as we say in my business, a profit in the making. That is the exact kind of thinking that keeps Law enforcement, Lawers, Judges and all the support staff employed.

So if you get caught while taking these photos on anothers land and since you have no respect for "private property per se." I would assume that you have no problem with the law enforcement officer taking your camera, and erasing all the photos on it, as there would be no need for them to have respect for your private property per se.

Common Sense and the new math. Some people just can't figure either one out.