Do you have B/W or color questions?

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

Ive been sitting here today finishing up some work from a shoot. I have posted several answers to peoples questions in the B/W section and am free to answer any obscure printing or processing or shooting question you may have.. I might be able to help. I have alot of pent up knowledge I would like to share with the masses. I am not trying to show off or anything like that. I figure since this is a forum for people that love photography, why not share my experience as a professional and what I may know with the rest of the community. If you find I am in error ever in my posts please let me know so that I too can learn new things..

Happy shooting

Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 62 Location: 70802

Well, since you're offering, I actually do have one.

I've been working up a print this week for a show tonight. I really think it's one of my best prints (sorry, I don't have a scan to show you). But when the model saw it she was upset that a couple of pimples were visible in the print. They didn't bother me, but you know how modelsscan be.;)

But it got me wondering about just how one goess about beaching out imperfections in a print. I know that it's done, but what does one use? And how?

Posted: Fri Sep 22, 2006 9:42 pm

trey138 wrote:

Well, since you're offering, I actually do have one.

I've been working up a print this week for a show tonight. I really think it's one of my best prints (sorry, I don't have a scan to show you). But when the model saw it she was upset that a couple of pimples were visible in the print. They didn't bother me, but you know how modelsscan be.;)

But it got me wondering about just how one goess about beaching out imperfections in a print. I know that it's done, but what does one use? And how?

See

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

That link pretty much sums it up...be very subtle, since you are working directly on the print build the level of bleaching up instead of one big shot. Same thing applies to spoting. Most times people wont even notice where you have spotted unless you over do it.

A thing to concider...and I know my reply is late.....This is your piece of art, correct? It is important to keep your models happy, but if this piece speaks to you as is with the blemish then put it in the show and give her a retouched copy. You have to keep yourself happy as well. People are not perfect so if you responded well to the image Id say go with it. Just be careful with the bleach. obviously it works on the sliver part of the print, so the darker the area, the more bleaching will occur.. since highlights have very little silver the bleach does not act on them as strongly...

Joined: 11 May 2006 Posts: 62 Location: 70802

Thanks for the replies guys.

Packard, thanks for the file, I'll read over it later. Is that from a class that you taught? Where did you teach?

Through the lens, I'll keep that in mind. I turned the print in, and it was accepted, but the show got postponed due to rain -- it's an outdoor gallery. I'm pretty stoked, this'll be my first print in a legitimate show.

Are you going to be around for awhile? I'm full of questions.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

Im glad you are excited and the print was accepted. Congrats on your first show. I will be here..send me a private message if you have a dire question. Packard I cannot speak for, but I am sure he will be here and willing to answer any questions you may have if for some reason I cannot reply or do not know the answer in some way.

Good Luck.

Posted: Fri Oct 27, 2006 3:32 pm

I'm not familiar (yet) with B&W shooting, but I have a question. I had always thought that if you have an image that is properly light and has a proper contrast and it looks alright in coulor it should also look alright in B&W. I like to know this because it can help me to juge the lighting of my photos and compare one against the other. I hope that this a bit clear.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

That is not altogether true, if I am understanding you correctly. Are you speaking in terms of color negative film vs black and white film, or digital color vs black and white?

In either case, black and white film has the greatest dynamic range of all the capture media. 7 stops give or take.

Color negative has 5 stops give or take, Digital has about 4 or 5 and color chromes have 3 stops.

You expose black and white film differently than you would color, digital, or chromes, shooting for the shadows instead of the highlights.

Technically you could use a color print to judge how a black and white neg would look but you would be seeing less tone than you can achieve with black and white. You would have 2 stops less contrast in the color print than in the black and white.

Another note.
The mood, emotion and weight of a black and white image comes from how it is printed. With a good negative, I can print a scene anyway i want. Its extremely interpretive. I can bleach and tone, I can print on platnum. I can create air and weight.
With a color print I can control contrast and saturation with different paper grades. I can print light or dark, burn and dodge or print with a color cast. There is less freedom and its less interpretive..in my own taste

Posted: Sat Oct 28, 2006 2:05 pm

@throughthelens1125: Thanks for your explanation. I don't shoot film, only digital. I agree on the mood and emotion in B&W.

I also think my question was not very clear. What I intended to ask is: Is it possible to use a B&W conversion of a colour photo to check whether you lighting and contrast are properly.

Joined: 04 Sep 2006 Posts: 20 Location: Texas

Where do you draw the line between black & white and monochrome? I've seen pictures that I would consider monochrone described as black & white, and vice versa (although not as frequently).

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

You should be able to see your lighting and contrast range in the color image. Look at your histogram and see where your tones are falling.

If you cannot see a visible pattern to your lighting, then there isnt one.

Switching between greyscale and color has nothing to do with checking dynamic range and direction/quality/pattern of light.

Converting color to greyscale in photoshop, unless done right will leave you with a very flat image.

Again, while your shooting your digital files, just check your histogram.

Does it match the scene you are shooting?
Did you blow the highlights out? Bury the shadows? Do you want to for effect?
These are descisions you need to make and thats the best way to make sure you are getting what you want in a file..aside from tweaking your RAW files later.

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

A black and white image is a greyscale image.

A monochrome image is and image that consisits of tones of one color.
Sometimes people call a black and white image monochrome, but its not correct. MonoCHROME would mean that there is color. Grey is not a color, it is a value of black and white.

People will still understand what you are trying to say if you say it differently. This is just my take

Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 69 Location: Sheffield, England

Hi throughthelens1125. I'm hoping to take advantage of your generosity. I am a beginner in the photography world. I have been playing with my dark room (B&W) for a couple of years and am eager to start playing with different coloured toners. I have seen them referred to in most B&W Photography books, but they generally skirt over the issue and do not go into much depth on what to use or how to use it.
Please could you advise me on what I need to do this, and where I can get the chemicals etc from. I cannot find anywhere in Sheffield that sells any such apparatus.

Any help would be much appreciated.
Thank You

Joined: 09 Sep 2006 Posts: 114 Location: Boston, MA

there are several toners and bleaches out there for you to use. If you do not live near a professional photography store than you can purchase all of the chemicals you need from www.bh.com , www.freestylephoto.com , www.calumet.com , and many many more.

selenium toner- its the most common and used to really tighten up the shadows. It increases contrast and creates deeper tones throughout the print. It has a cool tone to it.

farmers reducer- is bleach, potasium feracyanid. It has fixer mixed in with it so all you have to do is mix as much as you need from the packet and away you go.

potassium feracyanid- bleach. works on the highlight values and bleaches them out, increases contrast and can give really dramatic effects if used in conjunction with selenium.

brown toner- tones your print brown

sepia-tones either warm or cool

platnum- this u use while printing, u need to contact print it but platnum printing will produced the richest toned prints

there are others but that should get you started. they all come with directions and are easy to use....
ALWAYS WEAR GLOVES!!! and make sure you are toning in a well lit room so you can see what changes are taking place.. do not tone in the dark[/url]

Joined: 30 Nov 2006 Posts: 69 Location: Sheffield, England

Thanks for that throughthelens1125. The information is surely going to be extremely valuable.
I do have a problem though. None of the professional photography shops around me stock such products. Therefore I am extremely interested in on-line purchasing. I tried the links you suggested. www.bh.com took me to a book retailer's website. www.calumet.com took me to a cooking Recipe website. And on www.freestylephoto.com I could not find a products section.
I am probably just being useless with technology, but I am struggling to find anywhere to purchase these chemicals. What am I doing wrong?

I much appreciate your help.

Chris